ClickCease

Ryan Berman Interview with Terrance McMahon


Have you ever found yourself with a great idea and you didn’t take action? You’re gonna love this show. In this show, I’m interviewing Ryan Berman. In his book, Return on Courage, he researched courageous brands, courageous people, navy SEALs, astronauts, executives from Apple, and the president of Domino’s Pizza. He’s got a great great story to tell about that, but he also has an algorithm to be more courageous. Right, he has the steps lined out so you can take action on your ideas, so you know the brackets between a coward brand and a courageous brand. Follow him on his podcast, The Courageous Podcast, and he’s got a great sock company called Sock Problems where you can sock it to the problems with branded socks for social causes. I think you’re going to enjoy that, and he has a little bit on that too, so enjoy the show. -Terrance McMahon


00:00
have you ever found yourself with a
00:02
great idea and you didn't take action
00:03
you're gonna love this show
00:05
in this show i'm interviewing ryan
00:06
berman his book return
00:08
on courage he researched courageous
00:11
brands courageous people navy seals
00:13
astronauts executives from apple the
00:16
president of domino's pizza
00:18
it's got a great great story to tell
00:20
about that but he also
00:22
has an algorithm to be more courageous
00:24
right he has
00:25
the steps lined out so you can take
00:28
action on your ideas he you know the
00:30
brackets between a coward brand and a
00:31
courageous brand
00:32
follow him on his podcast the courageous
00:34
podcast and he's got a great
00:36
uh sock company called sock problems you
00:39
can sock it to the problems
00:40
where he has branded sacks for social
00:43
causes i think you're going to enjoy
00:45
that
00:45
and he has a little bit on that too so
00:47
enjoy the show
00:48
[Music]
00:52
the author of return on courage he's
00:54
going to talk about owning
00:56
the space in your mind on an important
00:58
word courage and
01:00
you know i don't think it's talked about
01:01
nearly enough and welcome ryan
01:04
hey man how's hollywood hollywood
01:07
we already went through the process of
01:09
you know i live in hollywood but it's
01:11
not that hollywood
01:12
i live in hollywood florida so instead
01:13
of telling people i live in hollywood
01:15
now it's just safe miami
01:18
that never prompts a second question but
01:20
it's going great going great you're out
01:21
in san diego
01:22
i am i'm in san diego yeah it's a
01:24
terrible place to be
01:26
you know i guess i'll do it you had an
01:28
interesting uh journey from
01:30
you know advertising creative mind into
01:34
the human potential space i think a
01:37
transformation
01:38
into you know figuring out what i loved
01:41
most about what i've read so far
01:42
is the the algorithm that you have we
01:44
teach a lot of algorithms on how to
01:46
improve and i think everything that's uh
01:49
available to be improved there's a
01:50
someone who did it
01:52
and you own that space in my mind
01:54
encouraged so talk to me a little bit
01:55
about your journey how you went from
01:58
you know from college onto the new york
02:00
advertising space
02:01
figuring yourself out ending up in san
02:04
diego writing books
02:06
yeah first of all who knows if i figured
02:07
myself out you know i think we're all
02:09
works in progress right so
02:11
but um you know i mean look i've been
02:14
really blessed for like the last 20
02:15
years to be a compensated
02:17
observationalist
02:18
people pay me to hear what's not said
02:20
and
02:21
a lot of clients often by the time our
02:23
phone rings there there's a clarity
02:25
error
02:25
and i think we are going through this
02:27
time where there's a
02:28
little bit of a clarity epidemic and
02:31
we're not clear
02:31
it fogs our decision making
02:35
so you do that for 20 years for
02:37
companies and you see every
02:38
every type of vertical under the sun and
02:40
sometimes as you know you're
02:42
like oh wow this thing that worked over
02:43
there and apparel would work really well
02:45
over here and insurance why hasn't
02:46
anybody done that before
02:49
you know and so um 20 years of
02:52
sort of building that muscle and to be
02:55
honest like i never
02:56
thought i would land in this arena in
02:58
san diego
02:59
in the courage space but when i really
03:02
look back at the choices i've made
03:05
you know even though i didn't see it
03:06
that way they were the the path less
03:08
traveled
03:09
it was courage and action i didn't call
03:11
it that i was just kind of
03:12
following my curiosity and taking action
03:15
on those ideas and
03:16
so as you stated i started in new york
03:18
city seven years there the 700 person
03:20
creative agency
03:21
really at the end of the mad men era
03:24
like i learned from those guys
03:26
crazy great people to like just listen
03:29
and watch
03:29
and then got my shot to write
03:32
uh like my last three or four years in
03:35
the city was really traveling around the
03:36
country working for subway and volvo
03:38
and pharmaceuticals and all sorts of
03:40
things and
03:42
i honestly thought i was done with that
03:43
business had moved to california to
03:45
write movies
03:46
not live one and landed uh
03:50
started my first creative agency in 2004
03:53
grew it to 70 people and i don't know
03:56
how
03:57
you feel about this terence but like
03:59
when you're in a
04:00
market like san diego that's not exactly
04:03
like the mecca of creativity
04:04
right you kind of feel like uh
04:08
i felt like we couldn't be even with la
04:10
or new york we had to try and be better
04:13
like if someone was gonna go back to
04:14
their ceo and hire us
04:16
like how do like how they're gonna
04:18
choose us so
04:20
i was like how about i write a book you
04:21
know and like every idea that lights up
04:23
our team is a courageous idea like our
04:25
team just will work around the clock if
04:27
it's actually something that's never
04:28
been done before
04:30
and uh and by the way they don't even
04:32
like working on like below the line
04:33
cloud
04:34
like boring stuff they're ready to do
04:35
cool stuff so
04:37
i had landed on an idea in 2015 called
04:40
courage brands
04:42
and i'm like i don't know what this
04:44
means but
04:45
i really like what it sounds like and
04:49
and that really became the beginning of
04:51
my journey to understand
04:53
courage like how could you understand
04:55
what a courage brand is if you don't
04:57
deconstruct it and really look at
04:59
courage
05:00
and uh who am i to to say that the
05:04
dictionary definition is
05:06
off like how presumptuous am i but
05:09
when you look at the dictionary
05:10
definition it's the ability to do
05:12
something that frightens one
05:14
right i don't know anybody really wants
05:17
to do that
05:18
do you want to do that no no and so
05:22
i just was like how do you how do how
05:25
could that be it like how
05:26
and how is that useful we're so i wanted
05:29
to just come up with a
05:31
utilitarian definition of courage and um
05:36
the first six months of what turned out
05:37
to eventually be my book was really just
05:39
interviewing what i call the three b's
05:42
the brave the bullish and the brainiac
05:46
and on the brave the brave side navy
05:48
seals and astronauts and tornado chasers
05:50
like how do they do what they do why do
05:52
they do what they do
05:54
the bull aside people at apple and
05:56
google and
05:58
method and harvard and i was sort of
06:00
floored that
06:01
the largest organizations on the planet
06:03
were also the most agile
06:05
you would think it was like the little
06:06
guy that could pivot
06:08
and it wasn't that these big companies
06:10
were putting resources in place and then
06:12
the brainiac side was like cambridge
06:14
phd's co-writer of the secret
06:16
clinical psychologists um
06:20
i went to television radio school in
06:21
upstate new york so i have no idea how
06:23
we were wired and i wanted to crack us
06:24
open and figure all that out and
06:27
when you take the learnings from those
06:28
three buckets and you throw it in the
06:31
soup
06:32
i came out the other side with the
06:33
definition of courage that i think is a
06:35
bit more useful
06:36
and my definition is knowledge
06:39
plus faith plus action equals courage
06:44
and i mean you know you're never gonna
06:46
have every bit of knowledge you need to
06:47
make a call
06:48
which is why we need faith and then how
06:50
often have you known the right thing to
06:52
do and you felt it was the right thing
06:53
but you just couldn't pull the trigger
06:54
you can take action so it needs to be
06:56
all three
06:56
right so you triangulated uh i think it
07:00
was
07:00
ray dalio talked about triangulating hit
07:02
cancer and so he had like
07:04
all kinds of experts telling him what to
07:06
do and he said well there was all these
07:07
experts that he had
07:09
like people that cut cancer out of you
07:11
people that radiated out of you and
07:12
people that
07:13
medicated out of you he interviewed them
07:15
all and
07:16
triangulated what what what the decision
07:18
was he thinks it saved his life so it's
07:20
interesting that you
07:21
obviously if you're talking about
07:22
courage you're going to go talk to the
07:24
astronauts and the seals
07:26
but the science of courage and the and
07:28
the application of uh
07:29
what's that what did you call it the
07:30
bullish yeah the bullish
07:33
people just put themselves away out
07:34
there in the brainiac what is the
07:36
bullish
07:38
what's that well bullish i think is just
07:40
more like c-suite
07:42
vice president's of companies those who
07:44
are not afraid to be
07:45
proactive you know there's this i mean
07:48
even the listener like
07:50
this quest to keep your company relevant
07:53
this quest to to not miss the next wave
07:56
and i think what we're seeing with a lot
07:57
of companies
07:58
that are dying off and if you look at
08:00
the data it's pretty scary we've got
08:02
over half the fortune 500 since 2000
08:04
that are gone right so
08:05
we want to like hold on to the points
08:07
that we have and it's like
08:09
it's taking us for a ride versus
08:12
well how do we hit the gas versus just
08:13
hit the brakes right
08:15
and and push forward our business you
08:17
had uh you had made a comment when i was
08:19
watching some of your stuff
08:20
uh you had made a comment that we spend
08:22
more time keeping our jobs and
08:24
and making it to the next review then we
08:26
do trying to innovate and create
08:29
new businesses you know yeah it's pretty
08:32
sad i mean
08:32
you know look we're not really rewarding
08:34
our people to be
08:36
innovative right you're rewarded a lot
08:38
of us are rewarded on an annual basis
08:40
just get to the next review get a little
08:42
pay bump you get to stay in your
08:44
cubicle now we have to stay at home
08:45
right but like the idea of
08:48
are we really having the right
08:49
infrastructure in place to reward
08:51
innovation
08:52
and reward experimentation and with that
08:54
comes some failure but those are really
08:56
learning opportunities to pivot the
08:58
company forward
08:59
i didn't see that anywhere i saw the
09:02
opposite i saw lots of companies that
09:04
were so focused on just what was right
09:06
in front of their face and those
09:07
decisions were
09:08
pretty much driven by fear
09:11
um reacting to the market versus driving
09:14
the market forward
09:16
and we're afraid to have that
09:18
conversation even with our team
09:19
so there's a famous proverb that that
09:22
fear and courage are brothers
09:24
you actually cannot get to the
09:25
courageous choice without channeling it
09:27
through fear but
09:28
what we do is we suppress that fear
09:31
versus address it and so
09:33
a lot of what i'm trying to do is
09:35
especially
09:36
in the corporate world is let's be
09:38
proactive
09:40
about what could take our business down
09:42
let's cannibalize ourselves versus
09:44
having someone else do that and that's
09:46
we gotta get our minds right if we're
09:47
gonna we're gonna go down that path
09:49
that's the idea so you've gone from
09:52
not necessarily corporate america but
09:55
you were advising corporations now you
09:57
are one
09:58
you know your own brand your own company
10:00
what tools
10:01
or what things that you did in the old
10:02
world that worked to help you set up
10:04
this brand uh this
10:05
this this movement almost what i think
10:09
advertising people getting bad rap
10:12
because it's like oh
10:13
advertising is a four letter word for a
10:14
lot of people now
10:16
right but the beauty of coming out of
10:19
that arena
10:21
is that you see so many verticals you
10:23
see
10:24
so many industries they're like little
10:26
short stories
10:27
most people live a novel like i know a
10:28
lot of people and the insurance business
10:31
might listen to
10:32
to this so if you've been in church for
10:33
30 years you're reading the same novel
10:35
right
10:36
and so where i've been lucky is to see
10:39
lots of little short stories all these
10:41
little verticals and
10:43
understand these air quoting best
10:45
practices of those arenas
10:47
and then be curious about blending and
10:49
meshing to figure out a new way to stay
10:51
relevant for tomorrow
10:53
i think that's sort of been the number
10:54
one
10:56
takeaway for me is how do you how do you
10:58
innovate
10:59
how do you take some of that what you
11:01
learned in another vertical and bring it
11:02
into
11:03
into your vertical what what uh what's
11:06
your
11:06
target audience i mean it's just you
11:08
normally i wouldn't ask this question to
11:09
an author but
11:10
who who reads this book and who needs it
11:12
the most
11:14
that's a great question i mean this the
11:16
the truth is
11:18
i want leaders and future leaders i mean
11:20
if you're listening to this this
11:21
podcast you're it i mean you're curious
11:24
about the world you're curious about
11:26
entrepreneurship
11:27
you want to be better maybe you're
11:29
frustrated with leadership at your
11:30
company
11:31
maybe you are the leader and like
11:33
there's like a i mean like a
11:35
blip in the belief system inside the
11:37
organization that you want people to be
11:39
better
11:40
i mean you're the person that needs to
11:41
take this book and
11:43
you know i know you've already talked
11:44
about courage in your mind but like
11:46
we spend all this time on goal set
11:49
right right now this is the time you
11:51
would be doing goal setting for 2021
11:53
and then what we do is we take that goal
11:55
set
11:56
and we think about the skill set that
11:59
goes with the goal set like who can pull
12:00
this
12:01
off and we're spending little to no time
12:03
on the mindset
12:05
right get the mindset right like for the
12:07
resilience that's needed
12:09
to take on this particular journey and
12:12
this was
12:13
why i had to leave my last life because
12:16
i could bring a courageous idea to
12:17
market
12:19
but if the company didn't have the
12:22
mindset
12:23
to go on that journey we could deliver
12:26
the perfect road strategic road map for
12:27
them
12:29
but the organization itself didn't have
12:30
the metal to pull it off like well
12:32
what's
12:33
what good is this courageous is a waste
12:34
of time for everybody on both sides
12:37
that's where i was like okay if i'm
12:39
going to write a book about courage i
12:41
think i need to live it
12:42
and you know the joke was a little bit
12:44
on on me terence because
12:46
i wrote this book thinking i was
12:47
positioning my last company and
12:49
everything i learned along the way
12:50
pretty much gave me the courage to fire
12:52
myself
12:53
and to start courageous and now i'm just
12:56
trying to design the life where i'm
12:57
working with
12:58
companies that we say the courage to
13:00
read like if you want to reimagine what
13:02
tomorrow looks like or rethink an idea
13:04
or re-energize
13:06
that team that means there's a change
13:09
that's coming
13:10
and wouldn't you rather drive that
13:12
change than have
13:13
change drive you um yeah my
13:16
my uh my book's about recreating
13:18
yourself so
13:20
and i did a lot of i met a big drinker i
13:22
drank enough to float a battleship
13:24
but i ended up getting liver failure and
13:26
and then um
13:27
they want to send me to rehab and they
13:29
say oh well you got to rehabilitate
13:31
yourself so all that means is by
13:33
definition talk about
13:34
th it means restore something back to
13:35
its original condition
13:37
well that's kind of busted up that's
13:38
kind of what got me here and recreating
13:41
something by definition means making
13:43
something
13:43
bringing something into existence that's
13:45
never existed before something new and i
13:48
think that's what
13:48
you know what courage the courage to do
13:51
something
13:52
new and different um you know like
13:55
you've done you've left a
13:56
probably a high pain i've seen some of
13:57
the ad campaigns you worked on you're a
13:59
player
14:00
in that world to go and be an
14:02
entrepreneur
14:03
cold you know with your tools that's
14:05
that takes courage so you're
14:07
you're at the front of the pack that's
14:08
that's our audience our audience our
14:09
entrepreneurs who
14:11
are either they're all creative they
14:13
tend to be and they all
14:14
are ready for another step and sometimes
14:17
you know you gotta you gotta get that um
14:19
you know get everything in alignment
14:21
with you so you share your i remember i
14:24
know your formula
14:25
share what what one would do to become
14:28
more courageous
14:29
and further to to live their life uh or
14:32
drive their company or both well i love
14:35
the word that you use
14:36
alignment because i in some ways i've
14:38
described myself as a change mechanic
14:40
like we're going to look under the hood
14:42
of this this vessel this brand and or a
14:45
person
14:45
and we're gonna try to give you the
14:48
tools to
14:49
get the the company yourself back in
14:51
alignment and
14:53
and um you know the the question that
14:55
should be asked to me is
14:57
okay if knowledge faith in action is
15:00
your definition of courage then what
15:02
which knowledge should i be following
15:04
how do i build faith whether it's inside
15:07
your organization or inside yourself
15:09
we're gonna need a whole nother episode
15:10
on that one right
15:12
and then where do you take action and so
15:16
imagine me sort of nine months six to
15:18
nine months into the process of the book
15:19
and that was the next questions like
15:21
okay i like this construct but like
15:23
let's go deeper and i think we talked to
15:25
tears about
15:26
know your why find your why but if i'm
15:29
an entrepreneur i want to know how like
15:30
what's the how how do i actually
15:33
be more courageous so like i said i
15:36
never thought i'd be a guy with the
15:37
method
15:38
the idea there's a price there's a price
15:40
of courage and price is an acronym
15:42
it stands for prioritize rally
15:45
identify commit and execute and
15:49
prioritize and rally are what i would
15:51
call the organizational health steps
15:53
and the first step is prioritize through
15:55
values and i am a broken record i'm
15:57
saying
15:58
if you don't know what you stand for you
16:00
never know when to take a stand
16:01
you know core values they're they're not
16:04
eye rolls they're how the exceptional
16:05
role and
16:06
they take the emotion out of the
16:08
decision making
16:09
even now like if you haven't thought
16:11
once about your values during this
16:13
pandemic you probably have the wrong
16:15
values and it's time to reevaluate those
16:17
values and
16:18
parents i'll send this to you or we
16:19
think your audience could send it to me
16:21
i will gladly send the values assessment
16:23
it's ryan berman at couragebrands.com to
16:26
whatever listener wants it
16:28
yeah we'll put in it we'll put in the
16:29
notes and um
16:32
you know i can tell you like when i
16:33
didn't have that clarity on even my own
16:34
personal values the amount of time
16:36
wasted on dumb things or the wrong
16:38
people
16:39
through the roof now that i have them
16:42
every decision i make is through them
16:44
by the way my phone when my alarm goes
16:47
off in the morning i've changed the
16:48
labels to see my values as a trigger and
16:50
affirmation to how i start my day
16:53
so as a company you know how are you
16:55
making decisions
16:56
if you've got multiple offices right now
16:58
you've got
16:59
hundreds of thousands of offices because
17:01
all of you all your employees are
17:02
working from home right do they know how
17:04
they should be
17:05
behaving that's the point of the values
17:09
yeah i did i watched your uh break the
17:11
glass first presentation and i kind of
17:13
i was i was thinking i had a couple
17:15
minutes between my meetings like what
17:16
are my values
17:17
you know and and uh you know there's
17:20
some people say oh
17:21
you know family travel books
17:25
you know learning teaching but it was
17:27
you know those those are just the means
17:28
to the end the value was love
17:30
contribution and uh
17:34
and and growth you know that too
17:37
uh contribution yeah just learn
17:40
something teach something and then you
17:41
know
17:41
which i get that through traveling books
17:43
when i travel the world meet people like
17:45
you that's all like this is a very
17:46
strategic
17:48
obviously if you know podcast i think
17:49
you got one too right they don't make
17:51
much money
17:51
this is a contribution we're putting
17:53
stuff out there to help people and maybe
17:55
at the end
17:55
later on maybe we'll get hired for
17:57
something who knows but that was you
17:59
know love my family is
18:00
i'm here for them you know that's my
18:02
value to do to love my friends and
18:04
family and to
18:05
grow so that was like exercise that
18:08
that uh you prompted me just to bring
18:10
courage and
18:11
you know value-based courage into um you
18:14
know into the front of my mind just for
18:16
a quick minute
18:17
you know it was very very helpful and
18:19
like imagine going through new york city
18:22
that ringer for me you know love is like
18:24
squeezed out of you
18:25
you almost feel like you're back in some
18:27
high school version and
18:29
you know that was like i said like i
18:31
felt like i had lost myself to be honest
18:33
like one percent of at a time over 20
18:36
years
18:36
being in the service business and this
18:39
book really gave me the opportunity to
18:42
go chop metaphorical wood and get myself
18:44
strong and figure out
18:46
why am i wired the way that i'm wired
18:48
and if i'm a leader
18:50
and you're responsible for leading
18:52
others how can you do that if you can't
18:54
lead yourself first
18:55
so the idea of the book is is that maybe
18:58
where
18:59
you know you don't even realize yourself
19:01
sabotaging yourself and if you can get
19:03
clear on yourself you can
19:05
figure out who you surround yourself
19:06
with and then we move into the r which
19:09
is rally
19:10
believers and i think you even make
19:12
believers or fake believers
19:14
and fake believers don't wear a t-shirt
19:16
around the office that says fake
19:17
believers
19:18
they just sort of nod and smile and
19:20
collect the paycheck and then roll their
19:22
eyes or worse
19:23
talk behind your back and it messes with
19:25
your culture
19:26
so the idea of the values is to is to
19:29
put that out into the world
19:30
to attract the right type of people that
19:32
share your values but bring breadth of
19:34
experience
19:35
and then you know again as phil knight
19:38
says
19:38
uh from nike belief is irresistible the
19:41
idea once you believe
19:43
and if people are buying and believe and
19:45
are willing to go the distance the
19:46
ceiling on the whole
19:48
organization just rises and maybe maybe
19:51
my existence and
19:52
this whole thing if you're listening
19:54
right now is there's probably someone on
19:56
your team who is absurdly talented but a
19:58
fake believer
20:00
and having the courage to move on from
20:01
that person who's messing with your
20:03
culture
20:04
and your organization this is the time
20:06
to have that conversation
20:07
coming out of this pandemic whenever
20:09
that might be like
20:10
come out healthy come out with an
20:12
organization that's all playing on the
20:14
same team and
20:15
the world is hard enough with all the
20:16
gravity that's already there i get rid
20:18
of any sort of
20:19
toxic fake believer it doesn't matter
20:21
how talented they are it's
20:22
probably time to move on oh yeah that's
20:24
good advice
20:26
i could just play that 60 second loop
20:28
right there and a lot of people say a
20:29
lot of heartache in time
20:31
uh once you have it you got to chop it
20:32
out of your life
20:34
um how do someone get your book let's uh
20:38
let's figure out how we get people to
20:40
get awareness of of courage but before
20:42
you say that i just had i just had a uh
20:43
we did a show
20:44
two shows ago steve right we did 22
20:47
immutable laws of marketing
20:49
whenever you remember that book so this
20:51
book's from the 90s and
20:53
and one one one immutable law that that
20:56
came into mind and first thing i thought
20:59
of when i looked at your stuff
21:00
was you know owning a space a word in
21:02
someone's mind as a marketing like
21:04
mercedes owns engineering volvo owned
21:06
safety fedex owns overnight
21:08
domino zones pizza like
21:11
do you see yourself owning courage in in
21:13
the space of the
21:14
of the entrepreneur leader i think
21:17
we have to acknowledge the godmother of
21:19
courage which is brene brown
21:22
i think she the work that she's done and
21:24
i've studied her
21:25
like back and forth in it and i'm like
21:27
amazed of what she's been able to do and
21:30
so i
21:30
i kind of try to pick up where she i
21:32
don't think she left off anywhere but
21:35
i'm pretty much a permission slip for
21:38
hard conversation about change
21:39
i think that's where you need courage
21:41
and so to go full loop on
21:44
the question yeah i think when you're
21:47
ready
21:48
for courage like when you need courage
21:50
and encourages an odd word because it's
21:52
it's not a cherry on top word like you
21:54
need it in the messy middle of decision
21:56
making
21:56
to ultimately get to something
21:58
meaningful so courage is a journey word
22:01
like if you hold firm in that messiness
22:04
and say sometimes it's no we're going to
22:05
stay firm on this or
22:06
no we're going to move whatever it might
22:08
be right
22:10
the the discipline that's needed and the
22:12
clarity that's needed is to land
22:14
on something meaningful and it can't
22:16
just be meaningful to you
22:18
it needs to be meaningful to whoever it
22:19
is that you're pushing whether that's
22:21
your staff or your product and whatnot
22:23
so yeah do i want to be known as the guy
22:26
that's helping you drive forward with
22:27
change and it takes
22:28
courage to do that like if you want to
22:31
be put on a path to become a courageous
22:33
company or courageous leader
22:35
or courageous reinvention then yeah i
22:37
accept that challenge and
22:39
and by the way it does it resonates with
22:41
me like because i like i look back at
22:43
all the stuff that i've done i think
22:44
this is why this this conversation works
22:46
all the things
22:47
that you've done too i mean you you're
22:49
clearly living the premise
22:50
of courageous as well oh thank you
22:53
what is the opposite of courage
22:57
the opposite of courage is coward
23:01
i thought so you you shared the brackets
23:04
between
23:05
a brand that's cowardly in a brand
23:07
that's courageous let's
23:08
talk a little bit about i i really
23:10
connected with that because you can have
23:11
the world's greatest idea and you leave
23:13
it in the closet nothing nothing happens
23:15
i think i think a coward brand is worse
23:19
than a stasis brand because the stasis
23:22
brand may not have the knowledge to know
23:25
the coward brand you know what you
23:27
should do you may even feel it's the
23:29
right thing and yet you don't take
23:30
action on that idea
23:32
and if i'm a leader this is where
23:34
leaders get it wrong you are not just
23:36
being watched by your board you're being
23:38
watched by
23:39
your staff and if someone is talented
23:42
to send out that you know the right move
23:44
and you didn't pull it off
23:46
you are a coward and that person will
23:47
not stick around long term wow
23:51
courageous leaders they know what to do
23:54
it doesn't mean
23:55
it's going to work great but i should
23:57
share my favorite t-shirt with you and i
23:59
wear it sometimes on stage so
24:00
i just buy as fake until you make it i
24:02
think it's terrible advice whoever came
24:04
up with it
24:05
uh i like mistake until you make it yeah
24:08
right so look we're gonna make mistakes
24:11
we're gonna we're gonna mess it up we're
24:12
gonna bumble this all the way through so
24:15
you gotta create enough like landing and
24:17
space and coverage for your team to feel
24:19
psychologically safe to
24:21
to mistake until you make it and take
24:22
those things that you learn and push
24:24
them forward
24:25
yeah that was edison the mistake
24:26
learners high
24:28
you know he just loved the mistakes
24:30
jordan
24:31
missed the most shots bruce struck out
24:33
the most they heard him einstein i just
24:34
read made a ton of mistakes he made the
24:36
small errors in the
24:37
in the in the equations like relatively
24:40
relatively
24:41
relativity speaking of mistakes i make
24:44
mistakes a lot too you get the high now
24:46
yeah yeah we'll fake it do you make it
24:47
but uh yeah he was making the basic
24:49
addition mistakes he was making really
24:51
elementary mistakes that he had this
24:52
theory he was just rushing through
24:54
that's really good advice i love it
24:57
cowardly
24:57
you know get out of the coward own
24:59
courage how does someone
25:00
get a hold of your books and follow you
25:02
on on social or what is how does someone
25:04
hold you
25:05
a company again by the way i love this
25:07
stuff so i really appreciate you giving
25:09
me the opportunity to come on the show
25:11
and connect with your viewers and
25:12
if someone has a question for me they
25:14
can find me uh
25:16
the book is at return on courage dot com
25:18
or i'm not sure if you're familiar with
25:19
the company called amazon
25:20
and sold there as well yeah and uh
25:24
find me on linkedin send me an email
25:26
ryan berman at couragebrands.com i will
25:28
get to it at some point i promise you
25:31
and uh like anyone that's on their path
25:34
you know like again that without
25:35
conflict you know there isn't going to
25:37
be any courage and vice versa
25:39
courage there is no change so have fun
25:42
with it
25:42
give yourself permission to mistake it
25:44
till you make it and
25:45
go get em love it thanks ryan
25:48
and that's it ryan berman return on
25:51
courage
25:52
take care thanks guys
25:57
[Music]


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