Courageous
Podcast

Ryan Berman 0:00

This is a show about facing fear, unlocking courage, and taking action.

 

Speaker 2 (Female) 0:05

Courage isn't necessarily a daunting thing.

 

Speaker 3 (Male) 0:07

It's going to give you more purpose, it's going to give you more drive.

 

Speaker 4 (Male) 0:10

It feels like making a courageous decision is going to get you closer to who you aspire to be.

 

Ryan Berman 0:14 

It’s knowledge, plus faith, plus action equals courage.

 

Cedar Carter  0:17 

People often asked me, “How did you know how to be a CEO?” And I’m like, “I didn't.” I had enough wherewithal to understand the things that I didn't know, and know that I could gather information, and go to the people in my network and ask questions. Any intelligent person can figure anything out.

 

(Intro Music 0:36-0:42)

 

Ryan Berman  0:43

We are joined today by a 20-year vet, that’s how you would call it, a 20-year vet in the fashion, surfing, sports, wellness arena. And today you’re CEO of The Good Patch. Cedar Carter, it's so good to have you on the show. How are you doing? How have you been?

 

Cedar Carter  1:03 

Good. Good. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

 

Ryan Berman  1:06 

Thanks for giving us a little bit of your time today. Where I figured I'd start is, boy, it must be so nice to be a first-time CEO navigating a pandemic. Really? Of all things. So, maybe you can just sort of take us back to… First of allI, I do want to talk about being a female CEO, and what the support system is like or not like, but let's first start, like, did you start just as the pandemic started or before? How close are we here?

 

Cedar Carter  1:42 

Yeah, pretty close. I started in November of 2019, so just before. To give you a little background, our business was primarily a retail business or wholesale, however you want to look at it at the time. Sold through independent boutiques and spas across the country. And we were just starting to build out the D2C side of the business, so it was interesting timing.

 

Ryan Berman  2:06 

I'm curious, you're still navigating personalities of the founders of the business. And I guess, I should say, full disclosure that my team, we've had a chance to work with you and work with some of the founders. It can be challenging sometimes working with founders. I'm not saying it is with your founders, of course, but how did this opportunity, how did it start for you?

 

Cedar Carter  2:36 

Yeah. I think we're lucky because our three founders are just wonderful human beings with huge hearts, but they found me through one of their board members, just mutual network, I guess you could say. I interviewed with the board member first, and then he passed me on to Betsy, who was the acting CEO at the time, and we just really hit it off. I loved the concept that they have, how bright and fun the packaging was, and how clear the value proposition was to the customer. So, I always love a challenge. It was interesting for me. As you said, I've been in apparel almost my entire career, which I absolutely loved, but I was ready for something new. So, it's been a really fun challenge. Interesting timing with the pandemic and everything, but really a fun challenge to jump into the CPG world.

 

Ryan Berman  3:29

Well, I guess I should cover myself, like we've met Betsy, we've been able to talk to David and Kelly. David is my jam, by the way, he’s my creative guy. I'm curious, how much grace did they give you? Betsy probably knew because she was the acting CEO, but pandemic hits, did you have, like, they were like, “Oh, my gosh,” or were they still like, “Let's hit the gas, we have to go now?”

 

Cedar Carter  3:59 

I think, with any founder, and founders come from all different backgrounds, but with any founder, their company, especially at an early stage, seeds stage, or pre-major fundraising, it's their baby and they're really handing you their baby. A lot of times, companies don't hire CEOs that early on, usually one of the founders is acting as a CEO. So, they really were in a place where they realized that they weren't coming from corporate America. They realized they were on to something that could be big, but needed some help to get there. I have to hand it to them, they did a wonderful job at staying involved, but letting me lead and deferring to me on bigger business decisions but giving input when I needed it, or support when I needed it. They kind of said, “Hey, we're going to report to you from now on, you tell us how we can be the most helpful to you,” which was really probably a pretty unique experience and pretty amazing.

 

Ryan Berman  5:02 

You've seen some pretty big brands, like you said. You've done, I think you got Quiksilver, I think there's Roxy in there, I think there's Performance Brands, 2XU,  to name a few.

 

Cedar Carter  5:11

Yeah, 2XU, yeah.

 

Ryan Berman  5:15

Then you also have, and I love this about you, not that every CEO… You've got the marketing and the PR side. You got the story side. And being so close to Hollywood, you're in Hermosa, you've worked with celebrities. Do you feel like, when you think about what's possible for The Good Patch, how did all of this sort of help you go, “Oh, this is the right job for me”?

 

Cedar Carter  5:44

Yeah. I think there's kind of two main things to a consumer products company being successful. There's a lot of things, really, but if I could boil it down to two things, it would be, you got to have a good product that people find effective. So, The Good Patch checked that box very clearly just by the really organic, authentic traction that they had, and of course, I have tried the product before I came on board. Then the second thing is building a brand. So, I was looking at it from the outside, and like, do they have the initial kind of branding and secret sauce that makes the brand go? I think that they had done a really great job. David, I’ll give David a lot of credit because he did a lot of that early work in the packaging and initial branding elements, and they were positioned really nicely to be successful. So I said, “Okay, there's a lot to work with here,” and I know from my branding and marketing and building brand background that I can truly build a brand out of these elements that are here.

 

Ryan Berman  6:56 

I guess, for the viewer that may not know what The Good Patch is, can you just share that? What is that?

 

Cedar Carter  7:04 

Sure. Yeah, the 30-second overview is we make wearable wellness patches for everything that life throws your way. So, basically, our founders took the patch technology that's been around for decades in very proven serious applications, like birth control patches, for example. They used that technology and applied it to the everyday things that you and I experience most days like you're tired or you're stressed out, you need to relax, or females, period cramps, things like that. Maybe you have a big night out and you have trouble. I'm in my 40s, I have trouble bouncing back like I used to, so just those everyday needs states that we all experience.

 

Ryan Berman  7:49 

Yeah. It really is a pretty special idea. When I think of The Good Patch, you can't help but think of, well, the bad patch. Not that it's bad, but smoking nicotine. I feel like people used to wear a patch, that was sort of like the pioneer in the patch arena. Now, it doesn't have to be nicotine, it can be, like you said, when it's time to be calm or relaxed, you've got these good patches for all -- I like to say, this is something that we've come up with -- for all the feels. Whatever you want to feel.

 

Cedar Carter  8:21

Oh yeah.

 

Ryan Berman  8:23

So, is it going how you thought it would go?

 

Cedar Carter  8:28 

Absolutely not. Does anything ever go how you think it's going to go, especially with a pandemic thrown in there? But I do feel very grateful. It's been a really, really great experience, which is what I wanted out of it. I wanted to learn the CPG industry, and be able to put my stamp on something and say that I grew something, and we've certainly done that. We've had massive growth over the three years that I've had the pleasure of joining the company. We're in all Targets nationwide, we're in Ulta Beauty, CVS. Over 10,000 doors now, and I got to take us through our Series A fundraise, which was a whole nother job and learning curve in and of itself, but thankfully, successful. And we've built a really great team, both internally and with our board of directors, and the people, our investors that are backing us.

 

Ryan Berman  9:26 

So, I'm curious, where did you personally get the business bug from? Was it something that you knew one day you wanted to be a CEO, or there was a mentor? Where did that come from for you?

 

Cedar Carter  9:42 

That's a great question, and I don't know that I have a great answer. My parents, to give you a background. My name is cedar, so you can probably guess at my upbringing. I had complete ‘live off the land,’ very hippie kind of parents that were just living to their heart's desire out in middle of nowhere on the Olympic Peninsula Washington state. But I always had this internal drive to get out there and do something big. And I can't quite pinpoint it to any one thing, but I've just sort of always had a drive to succeed. That goes across my life, I guess, in anything, whether it's sports. I broke my wrist a couple of weeks ago being way too competitive. I think I never set out to be a CEO, and I think, early on in my career, I probably would have said that's not my end goal. It really naturally happened, which I know sounds funny. I had a drive to succeed, but I always thought that path would be in marketing. Then I got to a certain point in my career where I just, to be honest, was a little bored and felt like I wanted to learn something new. I've always had a very math brain in addition to the creative side, both sides fulfill me in different ways. So it was, somebody gave me an opportunity along the way, and said, “I think you can do more,” and gave me that opportunity, and which I'm very grateful for.

 

Ryan Berman  11:15 

How critical… And I don't want to sound like a Hallmark card here, but when somebody does transfer that belief, it is like, “You got this, you can run with it.” First of all, I'd love to know who that person was, but second, do you feel like that is a multiplier in all this?

 

Cedar Carter  11:39 

Yeah, absolutely. I think you can have confidence in yourself, but someone at a higher level in their career saying, “Actually, I think you can do way more than marketing. I think you can actually do this whole other job over here,” yeah, it kind of gives you that validation to try it. I knew I was ready to take that step, but I didn't quite know how to go about it. So absolutely. Her name is Pam, Pam Levine, she gave me that opportunity to branch out. I was hired under her as a VP of marketing, and she gave me the opportunity to branch out into a GM role that was initially over the D2C and brand side of 2XU which is an Australian-based activewear company. Then I eventually ended up running all of North America, reporting in to the CEO in Australia. So, it was a great opportunity, and definitely a very steep learning curve, but I enjoyed it.

 

Ryan Berman  12:44 

Talk about it, it was a serious performance brand, wasn't it? From what I remember.

 

Cedar Carter  12:49 

Yeah. They are very, very serious. They do a pretty good business selling directly to all the professional sports leagues in the US and elsewhere. So, if you see the Lakers, they’re I think sponsored by Nike or whoever it is. But when they're coming off the court, boarding their plane back to wherever they're going, they're wearing 2XU compression recovery tights, and a lot of that. Things that you would see on professional triathlons and athletes is 2XU.

 

Ryan Berman  13:20 

So, I know you said, you weren't setting out to be CEO, but here you are, right?

 

Cedric Carter  13:25

Yeah.

 

Ryan Berman  13:29

I am curious, as a female CEO, now that you're here, were you always more conscious of female leadership or are you now? Do you recognize, why aren't there that many more female CEOs in the space?

 

Cedar Carter  13:46 

Right. I feel like there's a popular saying right now, “See it to be it,” and I agree with that. I think, it's funny, I worked in the apparel industry, and then started in higher fashion, and then went over to lifestyle. But a lot of those companies were run by men, and there were not a lot of female leaders, to be honest. So yeah, it's interesting. And I think now, I am much more aware of how hard it was to get here, and how few of us there are, but, as a result, I think there's phenomenal networks. Now, I have access to just a wonderful network of female founders, and CEOs, and people in leadership positions, and I found that there's so few of them that they really want to be connected. So, they reach out via LinkedIn, or you meet them through schools, or the neighborhood, or whatever. They really want those connections and to be able to talk about how can we help kind of groom the female leaders underneath us to get into these positions a little easier than maybe we had it.

 

Ryan Berman  14:59 

So obviously, this is a show about courage, this is The Courageous Podcast.  When you think about the world today, and you're leading a team, and like you said, it has gone exactly not as planned in some ways. It's messy. Where do you feel like you've seen or displayed just a brave moment or courageous moment in the business that you can share?

 

Cedar Carter  15:33 

Yeah. I think I used the most courage in just taking the leap to come over to a whole new industry. That was very scary, to be honest, because you have a lot of doubt, “Is my skill set transferable to this whole other…?” Every industry has its own language. And then, once I got on board, I think the business very quickly was going in a great direction, and then COVID happened. Then overnight, literally, overnight, I think on March 15th, or whatever it was when everything closed, our business essentially went to zero because we were very heavy on the wholesale side. I think 100% of our distribution closed. And so, I had to make really tough business decisions keeping in mind that we had this very small but very… A lot of it was literal family staff. So, I had to make the tough decision of how do we keep this business alive during this time? How long will it last? I had to do a round of layoffs very early on during that time. Furloughs, and eventually layoffs when we knew that the pandemic was not ending anytime soon. So, those were really tough decisions, and I tried to do it with as much empathy and grace as possible, but while still making sure that we all had a place to work. We came out of it really wonderfully, we did our first mass-market partnership with Target, who was a retailer that was still open during pandemic times. We put a lot into the D2C side of our business and scaled that enormously. So, it all worked out in the end, but it was tough.

 

Ryan Berman  17:26 

No, there's no worse part too than letting people go.

 

Cedar Carter  17:32

That’s the worst.

 

Ryan Berman  17:33

There's no good way to do it. There's definitely wrong ways to do it.

 

Cedar Carter  17:38

Oh, yeah.

 

Ryan Berman  17:40

I could see how that's the case and I… Now that you said you've sort of leaped into this, you've been in this new vertical now for some time, so give me the, “Okay, here are the two lessons.” Usually, people do three, but that's a lot. So, two lessons that you're like, more similar than I thought… Give me one where it's more similar than I thought, and one where it's like, so far away from what you've done before.

 

Cedar Carter  18:11

I think the basics to business are similar, but the language is completely different. So, it's been interesting because the basics for building a brand, and being strategic in your distribution, and whatever little things or big things, I guess. Like watching your cash flow, and managing a P&L, it's all the same no matter what type of business you're running, but the language is completely different. What I realized is, Google is your friend. You can be on these calls, and they're speaking a different language, and you can just figure out what the CPG lingo is compared to the apparel lingo. It's an interesting thing, and I think something that can be very intimidating, but it's actually really simple when you get down to it.

 

Ryan Berman  19:01 

I recently ran into this little parable. It's the story of the cow and the buffalo, and how they each deal with conflict. Have you heard this story before?

 

Cedar Carter  19:14

I don't think so, but I’m interested though. Tell me.

 

Ryan Berman  19:17

Okay. Storytime with Ryan Berman. So, we'll start with the cow. So, a cow's natural reaction when it senses a storm is coming, and cows are slow, is to run away from it. So, they can feel the storm coming in. If the storm is moving from west to east, the cow is going to move as far out east to try to outrun the storm. And, of course, the problem is cows are slow. The storm will catch a cow, but because the cow continues to try to run away from the storm, it actually spends more time in the storm than if it just sits still and never moved at all. Now the buffalo takes an entirely different approach. A buffalo sense of the storm coming, and the second they sense it, they're running towards it. If it's west to east, the buffalo is going west. It's going to move headfirst into the storm, and just by going into it, you'd almost think it's counterintuitive, you spend far less time in the storm than the cow. So, give me one scenario where you have been the buffalo. Where you like, “I know the storm is coming, I have to go right at the storm, we have to go now. We're going to be in the storm people, but let's go.” Give me one example where you played buffalo in this scenario with the business.

 

Cedar Carter  20:41 

I already used it, but it's the one that jumps to my mind the quickest is when COVID was coming, and all of our retailers were shut down, I knew that I had to make a decision. I couldn't wait and see what happened, I had to make a decision based on the facts that were immediately in front of me in order to have a business three months from then. So unfortunately, I've been through quite a few layoffs at different companies over the years for various reasons, and so we executed a complete restructure, and office closing, and all those things very, very quickly. And we were able to conserve cash and get through the storm really quickly, versus, I witnessed a lot of other companies taking the wait-and-see approach, and burning a lot of cash waiting and seeing, and not coming out the other side maybe at all. So I agree, it's good to be the buffalo. I'm not a procrastinator. It's funny, I just had this conversation with some people on my leadership team because there's two types of people right there. There are the people that want to get it done so it's not like a stressor hanging over your head, then there's the people that wait until the 11th hour, and then are super stressed and stay up all night doing it. I am just so the opposite of a procrastinator. I like to get things done, and move forward, and create space in my mind for the things ahead of me, versus being stressed about the looming things that I could get off my list now.

 

Ryan Berman  22:17 

So, if you weren't doing this job, what would you be doing?

 

Cedar Carter  22:24 

Oh, good question. I have no idea. I think I'm someone that's curious and I like to learn. So, I think my career would have taken some sort of turn or pivot. I've always done something that's meaningful to me. So, whether that's apparel, or wellness. I've always been involved in the fitness world, I think it would have stayed in those channels of health, wellness, maybe food, which I love. Yeah, I don't know, that's a hard question. I don't have a good answer. What would you be doing?

 

Ryan Berman  23:06 

Obviously, I'd be a podcast host if I wasn’t…

 

Cedar Carter  23:08

Obviously.

 

Ryan Berman  23:08

…Consulting on a regular basis. What would I be doing? I love sports, I just love competition, and I'm also the first to say, like, “If you beat me, you deserve to be me,” because I usually am prepared. I'm going to throw the ‘usually’ in as I get older. So, I'll be the first one to shake your hand and be like, “You got me.” Look, I think, putting the energy back on you, obviously, you would be a basketball coach, right? Will you share a little bit about your story at home, if you don't mind, and what you have later on today?

 

Cedar Carter  23:54 

Yes. So, I think I would be a volleyball coach.

 

Ryan Berman  23:59

Okay. Volleyball coach.

 

Cedar Carter  24:01

Yes, I have two young kids, an eight-year-old son, and a 10-year-old daughter, and we are a very sporty athletic family. I think it's important for kids to try all different sports at this age. So, I have two little basketball players. My daughter plays volleyball, and all sorts of other things as well, but I am coaching my second grader's basketball team. We have a big game tonight, and I will tell you, getting second-grade boys to focus and pay attention is maybe the biggest challenge of my entire career. (Laughs)

 

Ryan Berman  24:35 

That's serious bravery right there.

 

Cedar Carter  24:38 

That's serious courage. I don't know if I would do it again knowing what I know now. But no, I'm kidding. Yeah, I do love coaching. Actually, I used to coach gymnastics growing up. I was a dancer and a gymnast early on, and then transitioned to basketball and volleyball, and other sports. But continued to coach all the way through college and really, really enjoyed that, and that's how I paid my way through college.

 

Ryan Berman  25:03 

It seems like you've been fairly deliberate on pretty much doing stuff that you're passionate about even in your professional life. Is that like a conscious effort, or does it sort of just, that's how it happened?

 

Cedar Carter  25:21 

It's a conscious effort for sure. I think it was the way I was raised. My parents chose to live sort of off the grid, not sort of, like very off the grid, and follow what they were passionate about. So, I think it's always been important for me to do something that I enjoyed, and I think I recognized early on that money is not the driving factor in my life, it's doing something that I enjoy, and the money will come, I think, if you are doing something that you enjoy. There was lots of times early on in my career when I was making no money doing marketing in the fashion industry, and living on, I think, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. So, it was tempting to do something different, but I really knew that, in the end, I would be able to give more and put more into something that I enjoyed doing. You spend the majority of your life at work, sadly. So, I think it is really important to have a base level passion or joy for what you're doing on a daily basis.

 

Ryan Berman  26:27 

When I step back and look at The Good Patch, it does have this cool factor to it. Like you said, first of all, the product works. Although I don't know, like government, who approves this stuff? What's the deal with…? Is it the FDA? How does that work?

 

Cedar Carter  26:49

Yeah. You have your two regulatory agencies in the US, basically, FDA for anything food, drug, cosmetic, anything that you're putting onto or into your body. So, they regulate that sort of thing. And then the FTC from like marketing claims.

 

Ryan Berman  27:08 

How much of a burden are those to the business, if you don't mind me asking?

 

Cedar Carter  27:14 

That’s been, I think, an interesting thing. We dealt with some things on the apparel side, but over into the CPG world, it's much different. It is a burden, I think, financially, in a sense because every single thing that you're putting out there, if you're doing it right, you're running through some sort of regulatory consultant to make sure that you're within the guidelines. So, it adds a little time, and obviously, money to the process. So, from that standpoint, it can be challenging. Then, of course, there's things that you know it'd be amazing, and that your consumers would love, but you just can't do it based on having to work within certain guidelines.

 

Ryan Berman  28:02 

Do it or say it.

 

Cedar Carter  28:04 

Right. Do it or say it. Exactly. You might be able to do it, but you can't say.

 

Ryan Berman  28:09 

Yeah. I could say it because this is not an advertisement, but the product really works. It's you throw on, relax, you can feel it working right away. Again, I'm not going to try to pretend to be the marketing director here, you have that person. I could see, it could be an issue, “What can they say? What can't they say?” That's all part of the business. Being so close to LA, and I think you've made a choice. You're in Hermosa, maybe that's a choice.

 

Cedar Carter  28:41

Technically LA. Yeah.

 

Ryan Berman  28:42

Technically LA. You have navigated spokesperson, celebrities. What's that like? How much of a challenge is that world?

 

Cedar Carter  28:55 

Yeah. I think in order for it to be successful, it has to come from a really true place of authenticity. You can't just attach a celebrity's name to something and have it be successful. The partnerships that I think have been the best have been when that celebrity or professional athlete has had a real passion for what we're doing, and wanting to create a product hand in hand for a reason. Then, I try not to work with anybody that's too full of themselves, so I always pre-select for people that I think are truly wanting to be there, and then that makes for a better partnership. Because if they're just being paid to do something, put their name on it, it can be very, very difficult to work with them, but if they're there for the same end goal, and also have a passion for what we're producing together, then it can be really fun.

 

Ryan Berman  29:52 

So this is, you have a matador out on this one, you can ole this question if you want. I imagine that the energy is just, like, when you hear that this person loves the product, it's back to you. It’s authentic, and it's organic, we should do something with them. Is there a story you can share where you heard this person absolutely loved the product, and they want to meet, and they want to hear more? Is there one type of [Inaudible 30:23] you can share?

 

Cedar Carter  30:24 

Sure. I'll tell you an interesting, like, ‘the world gets so small’ story, but there's a supermodel by the name of Taylor Hill, who's just a wonderful, wonderful human being. I met her when she was, I think, 15 years old and I cast her for one of her very first modeling jobs at O'Neill, and continued to work with her for a number of things. It's funny now because she's like this huge supermodel, but we worked with her on our E-commerce shoots, which are smaller photo shoots. Then we were doing a fashion show with Teen Vogue, and she walked the runway, and that is her very first fashion show that she ever was in. She was traveling the world recently, I think about maybe a year ago, and she was doing something for Fashion Week, and she was going on a very long plane ride. She found our products at Target, she found The Dream Patch, and she picked up ‘Dream’ and ‘B12 Awake,’ and she used ‘Dream’ on the plane and said she had the best night of sleep on the airplane. She was doing a photoshoot wearing a suit the next day, so she wore the B12 Awake patch through her suit, and she just fell in love with the product truly, not knowing anything that I was involved with the brand or anything. Then she did a ‘What's In Your Bag’ for ‘Vogue’, I believe, in France, in Paris, and she highlighted The Good Patch, and you can hear her enthusiasm. We didn't pay her for it, and obviously, it got back to us. She's so excited talking about the product because she had this true experience. So, she actually reached out to the brand to see if we want to collaborate in some way. Then we realize the connection between us, and so we're on the phone, we're on a Zoom talking like this, and she showed me a photo that she had the framed poster of that very first fashion show that she ever did, that I produced when I was at O'Neill. So, just like a full circle moment, and we haven't done anything formal yet, but she continues to be a very strong supporter of the brand. So, those are the types of partnerships that I love, the ones that come about just very naturally.

 

Ryan Berman  32:38 

First of all, all right, here we are coming down the home stretch anyway. So, as a CEO, and I'll give you the first one of these. If someone has sort of stayed around for the episode, they're clearly passionate and interested in what you're doing, and what I love most about this story is, you just never know. Assuming the values align, we'll call it that way, reputation matters, relationships matter, so what are the… It's called The Courageous Podcast, so what are the two to three takeaways you hope the audience takes away from this conversation?

 

Cedar Carter  33:19 

Yeah, I think a couple of things. One; treat everybody with respect because the world is very small, and you never know where people are going to be, and how they may help guide you along the way in your career. It could be an intern that helps you get your dream job down the road. The value of network, and just being respectful, and taking the time to have those informational interviews or connections along the way. I think it has been incredibly valuable to me over the course of my career. And then, of course, to be courageous and just have the confidence to… People often ask me, “How did you know how to be a CEO?” And I’m like, “I didn't.” I had enough wherewithal to understand the things that I didn't know, and know that I could gather information, and go to the people in my network and ask questions. I think any intelligent person can figure anything out, you just have to understand and do a little research on the things you don't know, and make an informed decision. That's like 99% of leading a business is making informed, intelligent decisions, and everybody can do that.

 

Ryan Berman  34:36 

You're basically a coach. Whether you're coaching… A coach to the team, The Good Patch team, or the coach to the basketball team. And good luck tonight, knock them dead.

 

Cedar Carter  34:48

Thank you.

 

Ryan Berman  34:49

I really appreciate you giving us a little bit of your time. We're obviously huge fans of The Good Patch. Where can people find the brand? Where would you send them first?

 

Cedar Carter  34:57 

Yeah, thegoodpatch.com of course, but then any Target nationwide, Ulta Beauty, CVS, or even Amazon.

 

Ryan Berman  35:05 

Do you have a favorite patch?

 

Cedar Carter  35:07 

Oh yeah, of course, I love ‘Be Calm,’ and then also ‘Rescue.’ Don't judge me, but ‘Rescue’ is absolutely amazing.

 

Ryan Berman  35:15 

I'm so glad you didn't go, “I love all my children equally.” I'm so glad you at least picked the [Inaudible 35:22] ones like, “No, I have favorites, no doubt.” All right  Cedar, thanks so much for joining, good to see you.

 

Cedar Carter  35:26 

Thanks for having me. Good to see you too.

 

Ryan Berman  35:31 

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of The Courageous Podcast. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to rate and review us on Apple podcasts so more people can find us. See you again next week.

 

(Outro music 35:42-35:55)

 

 

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